They may be one of the most original and diversified artists to ever grace the CCM family, and what’s even more important is they have found favor in the minds and hearts of many mainstream fans as well. With their uncompromising approach to songwriting, faith and compassion, Jars Of Clay continue to do what they do best, i.e. deliver some of the best music that money can buy. Lyrically the band can be seen more as poets who’s words stir the very fabric of our being and reach down to the depths of our souls. As there are undoubtedly many lives affected by the ministry that the band uses to convey their art, we at On Track took the opportunity to speak with the guys and attempt to discover just who Jars Of Clay are. As this was quite a departure from our normal heavy metal routine, we had a rather interesting conversation to say the least. As the band continues to evolve and the individuals maintain their desire to communicate deeper with their fans, I truly believe this was an essential piece for our no metal zone. Take a look at things from a different perspective and you, too, may become a believer as we each have!

OT: Well I just got the latest CD and I had a chance to listen to it and my first impression is: it sounds like more of a return to the original sound that the band first debuted with. I don’t know if you would agree with that or not, but it seems as though this album’s not quite as experimental as past releases. I know that during the transition between the first CD and Much Afraid you kind of went for more of a live element, but I have to be honest; when If I Left the Zoo came out I did not even recognize the band.

Steven: Wow.

Dan: Yeah.

OT: I worked for 6 years in a Christian bookstore and it took me a month straight before I realized who I was hearing on the in-store play.

Charlie: We were just talking about that.

Steven: Yeah, we were talking about that.

OT: So to put it in a question: do you find it hard to evolve in your music?

Steven: The process of evolving and de-evolving is difficult. But I think the desire is there for us.

OT: In the evolution of the music do you find people that can’t handle the change? It’s always a tricky thing to be creative and not do the same thing that you’ve already done and then there are those fans who would prefer you to always stay the same.

Steven: Yeah, it’s a trick. For us, we knew after that first record came out. Records that were released after that we knew to just do acoustic guitars wasn’t gonna cut through, there was so much of it at that point; to do a follow up that echoed the first record wouldn’t break any creative ground. It probably wouldn’t gain us any new fans but we might keep the ones we already had, hopefully, if they didn’t tire of it. I think rather than seeing people walk away from the band, which I’ve had that experience with a couple of bands that I’ve enjoyed, you appreciate the consistency for maybe two records, and then they’re like, *bam* trying something different. We would rather lose a few people along the way that don’t ‘get’ where we’re going to broaden the audience.

OT: So you don’t feel that maybe you guys went a little too far out on a limb? There are bands who sometimes will put out an album that’s so much of a departure from what fans know, they often times can’t relate.

Dan: I think that if you look at it from a broader picture still, I think that you can look at a band who’s hoping to have longevity, and then there’s a lot more room to move in the scope of how far out you’re able to go. Because maybe this new record, The 11^th Hour is a return to what the first record was like, but we never would have made The 11^th Hour had we not gone so far out with If I Left the Zoo itself. Really you can look at it almost as independent identities. With a band like us, hopefully we’re attempting to build longevity and not just put out a hit song and fade away. You have to be able to look at the growth of the band and some of it is just learning. It’s the learning experience and making a record that is a little creatively outside, that is stylistically different in order to really develop and understand who we are as a band. It just takes that process. Y’know I always look at bands like Fleetwood Mac who just made so many records and they’re all so different, and the style, you just go wow. You can see that through their careers the records have ebbed and flowed through different seasons and some of it was kind of experimental for them and some of it was really ‘safe’. Y’know, we’ve had great fans that have stuck with us and have gone, ‘Oh, ok this is what Jars of Clay is experiencing right now and what does that mean for the next project?’

OT: Right, that’s cool. The magazine that we work for predominately covers hard music so I think I can throw this one in: It’s funny talking about Fleetwood Mac and how they’ve done things so diverse in their music because on the opposite side of the coin you have a band like AC/DC who I think may be one of the only bands out there that continue to do the same thing every album (Laughter, everybody agrees.), and it never changes and they’ve still got this huge fan base. In the aftermath of September 11^th and the things that went down, there have been a lot of artists who have come out and voiced their opinion or have their tribute-type songs. A lot of the bands that we talk to, especially in the hard-music industry, are the ones that come out with this whole warfare, warrior attitude, that they’re gonna retaliate and they’re gonna go back after ‘em. With the type of music that you guys play, not being so heavy and aggressive and of course with songs like “Revolution” on the CD which gives a different light on the story, my question is; how do you guys approach warfare in a spiritual manner?

Dan: I think the issues of love and loss and those sorts of things really get us, they kind of shine the brightest as far as the tragedy or the hell that it is. We see these families that these people…, the sacrifices that are made, maybe the personal side of it versus the bravado of it. I think that’s just maybe where we are, none of us have ever have been in the military so we don’t have to deal with war in the combative sense, we deal with it in the way that it affects people. Like when 9-11 hit we were in Oklahoma City so we all went to the memorial that they had there and you just saw people…. We were walking past this one church and there was this open courtyard and there were these people in the middle that were just crying, they were on their knees and they were crying out to God and you realize the wounds that this kind of thing has reopened for people like that. Those are the kinds of things that really hit me. Like, wow, ok… just the sacrifices.

Steven: We did a track for a movie called “We Were Soldiers” that kind of touched us, I think, in a really acute way. In a specific sense it doesn’t just happen on one level.

OT: That’s very true. Like I said before, I worked in the Christian retail industry for a number of years and most of the bands we cover are not Christian artists. When I first became a believer I gave up all my secular music, but over the years I’ve gotten it all back, and one reason for that is I’m really, really disgusted by what’s being put out in the Christian industry today. Specifically because we’re a hard music magazine and there’s not a lot going on in that way and I’ve always thought…. Christian music has always seemed to be a few years behind the times. Now you guys have bridged that gap and crossed over into the mainstream and I think you guys actually do stay up with what’s currently being put out there. What do you think about the Christian industry, what do you see from your perspective?

Steven: I think obviously we see that it’s polarizing a bit, in a good way. That Christian music, that is music that is for Christians, is becoming really worship-oriented and I think it’s something they’ve needed to do for awhile, just to help them find it a little better. That doesn’t leave a lot of space for pop bands that make pop records with a Christian world view. In one sense: it’s gonna help define the genre a little bit better.

Matt: It’s sort of becoming church music, you kind of feel the worship trends, it’s more music for the church. That makes us look at what we’re doing and a large part of our audience is in the church and are Christians, but a lot of our purpose, too, is to expand beyond that and to bridge out of the Church into the culture.

Steven: A lot of people can find what they’re looking for, in terms of pop records that are made by rock bands who just happen to be more commercial. They’re able to get that in current popular music, rock bands like Creed and Lifehouse and P.O.D., and a lot of the appetite for that is being satisfied in not an expressly Christian manifested industry. The industry’s in a bit of a shake-up in regard to that and we’re still trying to find our feet in the midst of it and figure out how this, on a personal level, looks for our vision of what we wanta do; like where we hope to be, not what we wanta be.

OT: Yeah, I’ve noticed a lot more artists being signed to mainstream labels lately, Twelve Stones and Project 86. That’s somewhat encouraging.

Steven: People have prayed for those sorts of things in the mainstream which is really cool.

OT: What I’ve seen through my experience is most kids won’t walk in a Christian bookstore anyways, their parents drag ‘em in there, and most of the staff doesn’t know what to tell ‘em to buy. What are some of the artists that you guys respect, both past and current?

Steven: Well, The Beatles, we grew up listening to them and more recently, Cold Play.

Dan: Actually I just heard the new Foo Fighters record for the first time and I kinda dig that.

Steven: There’s a Kim Ritchie record. We kind of like the alternative to the boy bands.

Dan: Patti Griffin.

OT: So what do you think’s gonna happen in the industry say in the next five years?

Steven: We’ll see more of that.

Dan: Yeah I think we’ll see more of it, but part of it is the bar’s been raised, even in the Christian music genre, for good songwriters. I think the ability for a good song to transcend is obvious. If it’s a good song, it’s a good song, no matter what it’s about; there’s ability in there to connect on that level. And so I think as that bar keeps being raised and people try to challenge themselves to write like that, especially Christians, you’re gonna see a lot more of them competing in that market and being able to hold their own because they’re gonna be good enough to. That, I think, is the greatest hope that we have, and as a band we always ask the question goin’ up ‘Why does Christian music not sound like mainstream music?’ Why is it substandard or derivative? Why can’t it be just as good as what’s out there. Not necessarily in a competitive sense, but I would love for bands to be able to aspire to what we do artistically. I’d love for kids to be able to put on our records and not be embarrassed, and I’d love for them to be able to hold their own in the culture because it’s good music. And I think there’s a lot of people that are striving for that.

Matt: From a new artist standpoint it’s maybe a really great place to be in the sense that if you’re an artist who shares your faith, there’s a lot of chances to be sucked in to…. there’s this kind of trend where’s there’s this grass roots thing out there that’s available to pick up these new kind of ‘fringe’ artists that are in Christian music. A lot of them get picked up and then sort of scooped up by mainstream artists because they realize in our market, they can only do this one little piece of the growth that maybe they’re capable of. So from our standpoint it’s really good because that grassroots pool has a lot of attention from the mainstream music culture at large. I think they’re looking for a really big talent to break out of there. My guess is that’s gonna begin to erode, that sort of ‘nurturing’ environment where these bands with talent would be nurtured for a few years and then picked up by somebody who can really get ‘em somewhere. I think that maybe that nurturing environment has the Christian industry kind of polarized and focused into this church music, you’re gonna see that kind of prevailing. In a sense it rings for a really ripe season for a young, really talented artist to sort of spring on the scene and really have an impact. I don’t know if that same opportunity will be there in five years.

OT: Sounds right on. Okay, we were watchin’ the DVD last night and really enjoyed it.

Steven: Cool.

OT: When watching it, and also from seeing past performances, I’ve noticed when you play live you tend to come off a bit more aggressive than on the albums….

Dan: Sure.

OT: ….and I think that’s typical for a lot of music. Do you find it difficult to kind of rock it up, to give that live performance at concerts, to get the energy flowing?

Dan: I think it’s been a process of years since I’ve learned how to be confident on a stage and to get out there and not care what the audience thinks, in one sense. Just to get out there and go, ‘We’re gonna do what we do and we’re gonna show up a hundred percent and be out there.’ We’re still learning, but we’ve got to a place now where when we get up on stage we know what we have to do and we do it. We have the choice to either do it or not. We were told by a friend of ours that there are, “Two ways of performing, you either rock, or you suck.” (Laughter) We prefer the first.

Steven: The harder thing is to come up with the song in the studio that’s gonna do that live. We have the hardest time writing the really fast rock-driven type songs. We can write medium tempo songs all day long but when we have a song like “Revolution” or “Crazy Times” or “Flood” that is heavier, when we perform it live it seems pretty natural to do that; seems like the performance comes just real quick, if we can come up with the song in the first place.

OT: Has there ever been anybody that’s accused you guys of being too extreme? I say this because I remember the Dove Awards when you guys did “Crazy Times” and Dan’s up there and he takes the microphone and slams it on the ground and the head busts off.

Steven: I think there’s always that danger, maybe more often before than now. Times have changed, even in that industry, to where that’s less shocking. I think that’s changed but there are still times when we feel like maybe we should, for this performance opportunity, maybe a few more acoustic songs. We’ll select well what we’re gonna perform to show a certain aspect of what we do. I think that’s the joy of being in this band; there are so many angles to what we do. We love a good rock song, we love to have fun and yet I think there’s a heart in a lot of the songs too, that caters to something more introspective and intimate that can only be provided by acoustic interpretations. It’s a joy because the world is our oyster in terms of instrumentation and how we approach the arrangement of songs.

OT: Well that’s cool, right on. Thank you guys so much, we appreciate it.

Steven: Oh man, thank you.

Dan: Thank you guys.

Check out our follow up interview Here!